Seth Fultz: Thanks for having me, Tim. I’m excited.

SF: Thank you—that’s kind. When you hit me up to do this, I was unsure at first, because I don’t have a classic sales background. Part of me was like, “No, Tim—I don’t think I’m that great of a salesman.” But let me start with some background on what I do and what our company does. That’ll color in what my role is.

My job isn’t strictly sales. Bridgewell Resources has been a lot of things, but my division within Bridgewell is the utilities and construction division. We work heavily in the utility space, and primarily the product we’re supplying is wooden utility poles—the big power poles you see on the side of the road holding up wire.

Most of my customers are back in the Midwest. Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan—that’s my territory. Increasingly over the years, we’ve grown into a distribution model. I’ve got a large pole yard in Southern Indiana that I bring material into, and from there I distribute to my customers. It really operates like my own little business within the company. So I do sales, obviously, but my job also includes inventory management, inbound and outbound logistics, new customer generation, customer retention—whatever it takes. I babysit truck drivers. I’m a layman psychologist and psychiatrist for the yard operator who runs it. There’s a lot that goes into it.

Bridgewell kind of acts like a bank for me. I pay monthly interest fees on the working capital I’m using, and there’s a little credit and legal oversight from them. But largely, the company is hands-off when it comes to my business, which is great if you’re a self-starter. There are obviously some drawbacks, too.

SF: It is interesting. When I tell people what I do, I’ll give them the “I’m in sales” line. If they press, I’ll give them the longer spiel I just gave you. People’s reaction is, “I didn’t even know that was a job.” I get that all the time. And you’re right: It’s a commodity. My poles are not any different from my competitors’ poles. We follow the same industry standards. There’s a spec we have to hit. So it’s price and service—really the two things we’re selling on. As a distributor competing against manufacturers, I’m almost never winning on price.

SF: My company has been around a long time, and in a lot of ways it’s very old school—probably three or four decades behind the times. I didn’t have much formal sales training. The ethos of our company, our division, is basically this: Throw the rookies in the deep end, and if you can swim, great, you’ll be successful here. If not, we’ll find somebody else.

I started with six other guys right out of college. This was a little over 10 years ago, and I’m now the last one left. Well, I guess there’s another guy still doing it for another company. So two out of six made it. The other four washed out at various points. From day one, it was like this: “Here’s what we’re selling, here are some really successful guys, and they’ll give you their take.” But really for me, it was: “Here’s a phone, start calling people, then get on the road and start seeing people in person.” That was, in a lot of ways, my extended sales training. A lot of it was identifying the most successful guys at what I do, then picking their brains and trying to emulate them. So it’s about getting into a situation, asking for advice or help, and figuring it out as you go.

SF: There were two guys really instrumental in my growth. One is now 38 years in, and he’s probably the most well-respected, well-thought-of guy in our entire industry. If you talk to anybody in the pole market, the utility space, they’ll know who he is. So he was somebody I really leaned on, but his career, I always felt, was largely unattainable for me.

It’s funny, but if you’re too smart and analytical, you probably won’t do well, because you overthink things. So learning to do stuff on the fly, just throw something out there and figure it out, has been really big. Just go get an order, and we’ll figure out how to fill it. Never say “no,” always say “yes.” That’s where the fun part of the job kicks in. You just got a weird order, and now we’ve got to figure out how to land this thing.

SF: That’s the name of the game: our service. Competing against direct manufacturers as a small guy, there are advantages I see. One is that we’re much more nimble. Look at one of our competitors: They have some advantages over us, for sure. But here’s one thing that helps us: I do the work of probably four people in their company. So when I need to make a decision for a customer, speed is important. At one of our competitors, it may take four or five people signing off to get something moving, whereas I can make a decision and get it going that minute. Service and quality of execution are huge.

When contractors call and say, “I need this material on the job site by Friday. We have an outage and we forgot to order”—and I turn around and get it there Thursday, it says a lot. Eventually, they won’t call anybody else. I become their only call.

SF: More anecdotal. We’re 40 years behind the times; we don’t track those metrics. But there’s a running joke: in tight, small-window situations—if customers need poles quickly—one ethos we push is to get material on the ground in their yard before the other guy even gets back with a quote. They might call me, and my answer is, “Man, I’ll have a truck to you tomorrow.” Now, I don’t know if we can actually make that happen, but 99% of the time we do. The response time, showing them we care, being available—that’s what we do to set ourselves apart.

SF: If I have one, it would look like the following. I’d identify a prospect in my territory. For us, it’s pretty easy to pick out who’s buying utility poles. It’s either the utility itself, or what we call rural electric cooperatives. So you’ll know every REC in your territory, every rural electric cooperative. Then, overhead contractors. And you find weird little things like ropes-course guys building up courses. So it’s not too hard to identify prospects.

It’s a bit old-school: If possible, I want my first introduction to be over the phone or in person. I don’t like sending a cold email. I want to get them on the phone the first time before I start sending follow-up emails. A little of that is just me; I’m old school. But our industry is also old-school. So a lot of these guys want a handshake. They want to see you in person, or at least get to know who you are—because for them, it’s about being able to trust you with what they’re selling or buying.

For us, if you fall down on a pole delivery—if you don’t come through—they may have a line crew out there, and each one of those linemen makes a hundred bucks an hour, and people may or may not have power on. Not performing on what you say you’re going to perform has pretty dire consequences. So they care a lot about who you are, your character, your ability to perform and do what you say you’re going to do.

That first intro is important. Then I just ask, “Hey, who are you currently getting your poles from? I’d love an opportunity to work with you folks. I understand that may take some time. It may take years.” So a lot of times it’s getting on their radar as a backup and waiting for your opportunity. At some point, their current supplier is probably going to fall down, and they’ll call me to come through and bail them out.

SF: A lot of times, that’s how it starts.

SF: That’s exactly how I leave a lot of these first conversations: “Hey, I appreciate long-term relationships. If what you have is working, great. But I’d love to give you my contact information so you know that if something ever happens—if your current situation falls through—I’m here to help.” It’s shocking how much business comes from that.

Then there’s follow-up and regular check-ins. I try to stay in front of them. But I also know that it may be years before I sell this guy. But when he does call me and I come through, my hope is that’s the last time he calls anybody else.

SF: Yeah, but I’m confident in our ability to perform. As one of the only non-manufacturers in our market, we’ve built a system that lets us perform well in those situations. When it comes time to perform for a customer, I don’t care about making money, especially on these first ones. My only concern is coming through for the customer. So if it means bringing a load of poles from across the country and losing money on that first load, fine—because as long as I take care of them, long-term, that’s what’s going to keep us in business.

SF: I try to be conversational and not pushy. The pushy sales guy is something I just don’t want to be. And I don’t think my customers want to be sold to. Here’s the approach I take: I’m not trying to sell you something you may or may not need. All these guys need poles. They need them. So for me it’s, “Hey, this is something you need.” I usually open with, “I’m not going to take up much of your time. I just want to introduce myself, let you know we’re here, we’re available, and I’d love to leave my contact information.” Then when I’m out in their area, I follow up and meet them in person.

I want to be conscious of people’s time. I don’t have a script. I just try to be me and keep it conversational.

SF: I want to be careful of coming across like the pushy sales guy who’s trying to actively sell. I view my job as primarily doing whatever I can to make my customers’ lives easier. So that’s often what I say: “Is there anything I can do to make your job easier?” Often it’s “no,” but sometimes it’s, “Yeah, there’s actually this thing,” and we handle it for them.

Especially in the early part, my role is to give them information—who I am, what services I offer, how I’m a little different from our competition—and then lead them to a point where they can make a decision based on that information. Often, like I said, it’s, “We’re good right now with what we’ve got.” I say, “That’s fine. But I’d love to give you my information as a backup.” I can count on one hand the number of times somebody has said, “No, I don’t want your information.” That almost never happens.

I want customers to come to me because they recognize the value in what we offer, not because I’m a great sales guy who talked them into something.

SF: I love that. If it feels like customers have to work to get me to do my job, that’s not a good thing. A lot of my customers would call me their supplier, not a sales guy. Some of them may not be fully aware that I’m even a sales guy.

SF: That’s definitely a statement I agree with. In my business, I’ve found it to be true. The poles I’m selling are not materially different from the ones my competition is selling. Every once in a while, a competitor may put out a really bad product, and that can help. But there’s really only been one customer I picked up in the last few years who was dissatisfied with his former supplier’s quality of poles.

Most of the time, it’s our service. When customers email me, I respond quickly. If they call, I pick up. If they need something, I do everything in my ability to get it done. There are some customers who care only about price, and I’ll tell them: “I’m very likely not going to be the cheapest. If that’s your main concern, I’m probably not going to provide value for you, and we’ll just go our separate ways.” I’m almost never going to try to win business on price.

SF: I try to be very honest. I say, “I understand you’re price-conscious, and that’s totally fine. That’s your prerogative. I’m not going to be the cheapest option. So if that’s your number one concern, I’m probably going to be a good backup. If something ever goes wrong, I’m here for you.”

Our industry experienced a big shakeup two or three years ago. There was a huge shortage in the market. There are customers I was selling pretty regularly back then and doing what I think was a really good job for. There’s one that comes to mind: More than once, his supplier fell through and he had a job that needed poles quickly, and I got him material within 24 hours to bail him out. Over the last 18 months, he’s gone away and started buying from his previous supplier because it’s cheaper.

I sat down with this guy in person and was pretty blunt. I asked him, “I came through for you a number of times, and I’m surprised we’re not doing business anymore.” And he said, “I try to manage this REC’s money as if it were my own.” He only cares about price. I think that’s short-sighted of him, because one job that gets shut down is going to be way more costly than whatever percentage difference of our poles. But that’s his prerogative. I understand he may not be a guy I sell regularly, and that’s okay.

SF: Not every customer is going to be worth selling, or worth your time. Now, here’s the flip side: I have one customer who’s very, very loyal to me. He’s become a friend. I try to get out and see him a couple times a year, and he’s told me, “I’ll quit my job before I buy poles from somebody else.” He’s at that level—it’s really kind. Not that I wish all my customers were exactly like that, but he’s somebody who really gets it. He often says, “I know you’re not the cheapest. I’m fully aware. But I’ll never buy a stick away from somebody else.” Those are the guys I really value and want to come through for.

SF: What’s the saying? Quality, speed, and price—pick two. For us, it’s speed and quality. I make no bones about it. I don’t pretend we’re going to win on price. It’s just not what we do. There’s a lot of freedom in it. Volume is great, and you always want that, but it’s not my primary driver. It’s finding people who recognize the value in what we do.

SF: One of the senior guys gave me this advice early on, and it’s stuck with me. It’s one of the core ethics of our group: Do what’s best for our partners—both customers and suppliers. We’re the guys in the middle, and a lot of times that means taking the blows in one-off situations. We believe taking care of our suppliers is even more important than taking care of an individual customer, because without them, we’re dead in the water. So not beating up our suppliers on price to win on the sales side is really important. Adding value to both sides of the equation is how we’ve stuck around.

It sounds simple, but treating people the way we’d want to be treated is paramount. I’ve seen guys I work with who get really concerned about losing money on any individual transaction. So if something goes south, they’ll try to claw it back from the trucking company, the supplier, or even the customer. For me, I’m comfortable losing money on a one-off, as long as I’m taking care of my customer and supplier. I’m never going to go after somebody for a few bucks, because I see that as short-sighted to the long-term success of the business I want to build.

This isn’t a big industry, and your name and reputation—it’s really easy to damage them. Just being known for taking care of people, doing a good job, having their best interests in mind—that’s really going to serve you. At least, that’s been my experience.

SF: There’s the saying: “Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.” There’s a way to make money without sticking it to people, because that’s eventually going to come back to bite you. So coming out of that tight market a few years ago, my margins were up. I had this clear moment of realization where I thought, I have customers who’ll buy from you no matter what, but I need to bring prices down—because that’s what’s best for them.

For the long-term success of the relationship, giving them that money back—without them asking, or even knowing I’m doing it—is important. There are opportunities like that you have to take. Each person is going to run their business differently. I don’t think it’s prescriptive. There’s no one size fits all. But again, it’s just about having this mindset: “How am I taking care of my customers?”

SF: This goes back to what we were talking about earlier, but it’s just continuing to stay in front of the customer and being patient. So much of the process is out of my control. We talked about being a backup—their current supplier may never drop the ball, and I can’t control that. But what I can control is being ready if and when that happens. A lot of it is just being patient and knowing that day may never come, or it may come tomorrow. Either way, I just need to be ready.

SF: It depends on the customer, but no—there are customers I’ve been in front of for 10 years and have never sold. I know it’s a small percentage shot that I’ll ever actually sell them, but I’m going to make sure they know I’m there.

SF: Repeat selling is huge in our industry. For a large utility, we move hundreds of thousands of dollars a week. Then there are the RECs, which might buy 15 or 20 truckloads a year—and that’s a good amount of business.

A lot of the role is, like you said, once the initial sale happens, the work begins. So customer retention is huge. That’s where building up the equity of “I do what I say I’m going to do” matters. It’s not that I have to be perfect Johnny-on-the-spot, but if I know that one of my customers needs something this week and something weird happens, I get on the phone immediately, and I’m honest and upfront: “This delivery is going to be a little delayed. Tell me if it’s a huge issue and I’ll figure something out. If not, we’ll plan on the following week.” And 99% of the time, they say, “Oh, that’s fine. Just bring it the next week.” That upfront honesty is so important for repeat business.

SF: That’s a funny way to say it, but yeah—you get out of it what you put into it. You kill what you eat. I don’t think what I do is any different from people who are starting their own business. It can be intimidating, especially on pure commission. If you want to kick back and not put much effort in, it’s not a hard job.

But if you’re going to put the work in and stick with it, it’s hard. There’s a lot of uncertainty, and the responsibility is on you. I’ve found a lot of reward in being a little over a decade into my career; there are a lot of benefits to having a book of business. Sticking with the process, you see the payoff after a certain amount of time.

SF: If I had to boil it down to one word? Persistence. Continuing to show up and stay in the process. It can be a not-very-fun job, especially starting out. Just being comfortable with rejection—because it happens a lot. Most calls aren’t going to go your way. Most people are going to tell you they’re not interested.

It’s just being able to stay in the process, keep working. I’ve seen guys come in and say, “I’m going to grind out 50 calls a day,” and they go all out. That’s great. But can you continue to show up for years? It’s not, “I’m going to work really hard for two or three months and then it’s going to pay off.” Instead, it’s this: “Can you stick with this for the long term?”

People who are persistent and okay with hearing “no” a lot—those are the people who succeed in sales. How comfortable are you with failure? Being okay with failing a lot is the thing that’s going to help you make it long-term.

The first year and a half in this job, I was in a territory we’ve never had a lot of success—and still haven’t to this day. I was traveling all over the desert Southwest feeling like I was beating my head against the wall, getting no sales. My first year, I was well in the negative. I remember thinking, “Man, I don’t know if this job’s for me.” But I’m thankful I stuck with it, because another guy quit, left the company, and I was able to move into a territory we had a better opportunity in. From there, I’ve been able to build on that and grow. Ten years in, it’s a job I’m thankful for. It’s allowed my wife to stay at home with our kids, which has been a huge blessing for our family.

So I’d say persistence and sticking with it—that’s been the biggest one for me.

SF: Yeah, you’ve got to deal with rejection. You hear a lot of “nos” when you’re first starting, especially when you’re new. But you’ve got to stay around the hoop and wait for the ball to come your way.

SF: Thank you for having me. Anytime.