Jason Tolleson: It’s a busy season. You’ve got state legislatures in full swing, Congress is working on their legislative priorities, and we’re watching the administration and the agencies really closely. So this is a busy time in the policy arena.

JT: Absolutely. At such a high-energy event, we had a high-energy gathering of the incoming class for the Academy. We have 18 participants representing all of the regional affiliates, plus representatives from two manufacturers, which is a great cross-section of the retail voice, the service voice, and the manufacturer voice. And you can feel the interest they have in fueling their desire to learn more through the program.

We had a very engaging session with the outgoing class—our 2025–2026 class—and they got to meet and engage with the 2026–2027 class in some morning interactive sessions. Then later in the afternoon, we put the incoming class through a mock hearing situation and said, “This is what you’re going to see in real life when you get out there.” We did a mock hearing, and I was just blown away by the talent in that room.

We had our first in-person session, and we just had our first virtual session two days ago. We moved them into the legislative process—how something goes from an idea to a bill, and then the process to become law. We walked them through that in broad strokes. And then we challenged them: Find out how it works in your state. What’s the process in your state? How long does your legislature meet? How long does your governor have to veto legislation? We got them into a little bit of the weeds of how the process works. Our next session will be about how you develop relationships with elected officials, how you handle a congressional meeting in 15 to 20 minutes. So there’s a lot of excitement and energy with this incoming class.

JT: It’s great to tie the Academy’s work to our actual policy efforts. They’ll be coming into Washington, D.C. in late June to go to Capitol Hill, taking their education, their passion for the industry, and their business narrative to their congressional members. We’re in the planning stages right now, starting to reach out to congressional offices to arrange the meetings.

It’s a real test early in their GALA curriculum, just the way the congressional calendar works out. This is now the time to go and have these meetings. So they’ll have that hands-on experience—putting some shoe leather down, walking the halls and meeting with their members. And we have timely things to talk about as well, which is great. It’s a good transition to some of the policy work. The Energy Choice Act, or that federal fuel choice legislation, is still out there. We’re still in ongoing discussions on the House bill, trying to fine-tune a few more pieces and target a few offices.

JT: That’s correct. We have a committee report out there. As a matter of fact, the GALA participants were given that as their homework assignment for the next month: to go in and read that committee report, to understand the pros and cons of the argument of fuel choice, and to dissect it so they can bring that position into our visits on the Hill. So we’re just waiting on that House floor action. At the same time, we’re working on the Senate side, as we know they’re going to draft their own version.

There’s a bill out there now, Senate Bill 1945. We’ve heard it’s going to be massaged out a little bit differently; there might be some different language. So we’re approaching it from both fronts: continuing to push on the House, seeing what the outcome’s going to look like in the Senate. And again, tying it back to GALA, they’re going to have front-row seats advocating on the industry’s behalf.

JT: And I love how you tied it back to the affiliates. You mentioned Karen Arpino with the Northeast; I’d add Katie with our Pacific affiliate. Two weeks after Expo, I was out in Sacramento for their lobby day. Kudos to her and her team. They put together a great round of meetings, plus a display in front of the Capitol steps in Sacramento with some hearth products. Especially in some of these more difficult states—Massachusetts, New York, California—if we don’t take the message to them, they’re not going to hear it. So I’m looking forward to the upcoming ones already in the books, and the ones still being planned, for more of these direct engagements and lobby days.

JT: Let’s pivot more to the regulatory side by looking at EPA. The New Source Performance Standards—the regulation that impacts wood stoves—is still in progress as far as the communication with EPA. The agency has until December of 2027 to complete the rule for cordwood and pellet. It’s called the triple-A portion of the rule. Those products—your hydronic heaters—they’re in the quad-Q portion of the rule, and their rule needs to be finished one year later. So now is the time to be meeting with the agency and their staff, both on the policy side and on the technical side, to work through those issues before they have to sharpen their pencils and actually write the rule.

In the last couple of months, really since the beginning of the year, we’ve had some tremendous meetings with agency officials. There are several new players, some in different roles within the agency. We’ve just had some quality, productive meetings, sharing the industry point of view on both the rule and the test method, and how we can collaborate and work together—all while knowing they’re under a deadline to get this out there.

There are other points we continue to raise in support of the industry, both from the manufacturer and retailer point of view, regarding things like certificates and sell-through. Those items will likely be addressed in the rule, and whatever the EPA decides. But we’re also working on the test method development side as well, including how they’re going to move forward, what standards may come into play.

All of that’s going on right now. But I think the key takeaway—and I give a lot of credit to the manufacturers in our solid fuel section—is just the amount of engagement we’ve had, in-person and virtually. So credit to the manufacturers for providing the information, and to the staff we’re working with on the EPA side, who have been absolutely delightful to work with lately.

JT: There will be a rule of some sort, right? What it actually looks like is still to be determined. What elements are they going to take on? Which pieces from those prior iterations—including 2015 and 2020—will carry forward? Which test methods are involved, and what standards have to be met? It’s funny how you mention that lead-in.

We’re getting close to my two-year mark of being with HPBA, and that was kind of my day-one introduction: “Hey, there’s this thing down at the EPA we need you to go deal with, and you’re going down there in a week.” So the gravity and significance of this—not just the agency and working with the EPA, but specific to this rule—is again very impactful to the solid fuel manufacturers, the retailers, and getting product to the floor.

I’m not entirely certain on the outcome. As we’ve discussed in prior episodes, there was a lawsuit, and the EPA settled the lawsuit with several states who were saying they weren’t moving fast enough because they weren’t meeting the timeline established under prior rules. And that’s where this agreement, or consent decree, came into place, which says they have to have it done by December 2027, as well as 2028 for the hydronic heater side. That’s pushing that deadline.

What actually happens—how the sausage is made behind the scene, or what’s actually put into the rule—is to be determined. And having frequent and informative engagements with the EPA is exactly why we’re continuing to push on this front. I’ll be back with them in another meeting in two weeks.

JT: I think there’s a real opportunity to educate and inform the staff. As I mentioned earlier, there are new players and new roles: on the test method side, in the director’s role overseeing all these different parts, and on the rule-writing team itself.

I did my first trip with the solid fuel section and HPBA staff to EPA in July of 2024. That’s exactly what we laid out: “Here are some of the things we learned, here are some of the concerns. Let’s talk about certificates. Let’s talk about sell-through.” And that’s been part of our playbook in every meeting.

We’ve now had a few versions of the NSPS. Those significant changes started coming into place in the late ’80s with Oregon and Colorado, then ultimately the EPA. And as you said, as the emissions limits have drastically reduced, the industry has moved along with them. So can we start pivoting some of that conversation? There’s a huge existing pool of pre-NSPS product out there, even as we focus on what the future dynamic looks like. We’re trying to hit that from multiple fronts as they write the rule. Stay tuned.

We can give them all the information, and when they put out their draft, we’ll provide comments and keep the ball rolling. But the learnings and the narrative of how our industry is impacted—especially when you go through the sales channel from manufacturer to distributor to retailer, with those different points of impact—that’s something I don’t think they had full sight lines on before at the EPA. And now they know a little bit more. That’s where we continue to go back.

JT: I keep hitting refresh on the headlines as well—because it seems to be an ever-moving target, or deadline, or update. As I shared in our last episode, the emergency tariffs—the IEEPA, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act that the president used to implement the tariffs on border security, fentanyl, and some of the trade issues—those were deemed illegal or unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

So now Customs and Border Protection has had to go back and figure out some system for refunds. The latest I’ve heard, which could be subject to change, is that on May 11, some of that system will come online. The interesting part, though, is the industry impact. The one challenge in all this is finding the points of intersection: how a manufacturer produces its product, where the components or raw materials come from, and what was subject to a tariff at that point.

Some of the initial tariffs were Canada, Mexico, China, and then they brought it out to other countries. So again, the sourcing of the raw components versus the finished goods: Was it coming from a Canadian manufacturer into the US? What was tariffed: the component or the final product? All of that had such a variation from manufacturer to manufacturer, model to model, that it could play out a little bit differently, again, based on the sourcing of the product.

Now you’re throwing another element in as far as the refund process. I saw news saying that FedEx and UPS would start processing refunds that were paid directly to them once the Customs and Border Protection system is online. Stay tuned.

I think it’s also going to come down to this: Who actually paid the duty or the tariff to CBP? Was it the manufacturer? Was it the importer or distributor? Or did retailers pay in certain situations where they’re direct purchase? I’m hearing that a lot in the textile industry. So I think it’s still case-by-case. And what I would urge across the board is just direct communication—between manufacturers and their brokers or their customs officials, between distributors and manufacturers, between retailers and distributors and manufacturers—just to get clarity. At the same time, I’m hearing that more tariffs are being introduced under different authority—now looking at forced labor laws, and how they were maybe going to bring in another round of tariffs there. So it remains very fluid. As for the refunds, that point of inquiry may be manufacturer-specific, so reach out to the manufacturers and brokers to find out how it plays out. Stay tuned, because it still remains very fluid.

JT: Absolutely, and thanks for that opportunity. Looking at the calendar ahead, we will actually be scheduling a retailer policy update on Thursday, May 21 at 1pm Eastern, where we’ll give a little more detail on some of the pending state legislation. You’ll hear some similar updates, just given the timeliness of doing this podcast with you, but that will be open to retailers. We’ll be emailing out to all of our members; the registration link will be done via Zoom. We’ll have some slides and just get into the heart of what’s going on from a policy point of view, very specific to retailers.

JT: Appreciate it. Thank you very much.